Marvin Shilmer

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Posts by Marvin Shilmer

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  739

  250,000 Jehovah's Witnesses have died refusing blood

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  80+ branch davidian cult members died in waco, texas.

  250,000+ #jehovahswitnesses have died refusing blood.

  stop this #cult!

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  Marvin Shilmer

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  besty,

  Respectfully, if you’re going to completely disregard copyright infringement then you might as well give equal time to the original authors’ response to Isbister’s objections. It’s revealing.

  Marvin Shilmer
• 
  17

  Blood Transfusion – Brain Check

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  blood transfusion brain check.

  ive written extensively on the subject of the watchtower organizations communally enforced religious position against blood transfusion.

  but i often neglect to put the brains behind this religious position on display in full flaming glory.. in short order we have a gloriously brilliant display of these brains by aligning three of its epiphanies in nearly perfect 12-year intervals of 1932, 1944 and 1956.. take a look for yourself:.

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  Marvin Shilmer

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  “I was done there….”

  Too bad. Had you read on you’d realize my opening statement was no more than to emphasize a personal neglect.

  To each his own.

  Marvin Shilmer
• 
  17

  Blood Transfusion – Brain Check

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  blood transfusion brain check.

  ive written extensively on the subject of the watchtower organizations communally enforced religious position against blood transfusion.

  but i often neglect to put the brains behind this religious position on display in full flaming glory.. in short order we have a gloriously brilliant display of these brains by aligning three of its epiphanies in nearly perfect 12-year intervals of 1932, 1944 and 1956.. take a look for yourself:.

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  Marvin Shilmer

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  “Can you give us more info on the wt teaching of ectoplasm?”

  In a nutshell:

  Watchtower’s Top-Brains-In-Charge swallowed the then notion of ectoplasm hook, line and sinker.

  These men who purported themselves as “the voice of God” (see: http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2011/02/voice-of-god.html) were hoodwinked by a parlor trick performance using lighting, cheesecloth and luminous liquid/paint. The manifestation always came from a closed container or bodily cavity. Oh, and Watchtower’s Top-Brains-In-Charge thought the idea of before-and-after weight differential proved something more than that the “manifestation” was something other than a piece of matter the trickster had concealed on/in their body. Guess they never thought of that simple feat of “magic”.

  James Randi can tell you more about this trick: http://www.randi.org/encyclopedia/ectoplasm.html

  Marvin Shilmer
• 
  17

  Blood Transfusion – Brain Check

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  blood transfusion brain check.

  ive written extensively on the subject of the watchtower organizations communally enforced religious position against blood transfusion.

  but i often neglect to put the brains behind this religious position on display in full flaming glory.. in short order we have a gloriously brilliant display of these brains by aligning three of its epiphanies in nearly perfect 12-year intervals of 1932, 1944 and 1956.. take a look for yourself:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Marvin Shilmer

  -

  Blood Transfusion – Brain Check

  I’ve written extensively on the subject of the Watchtower organization’s communally enforced religious position against blood transfusion. But I often neglect to put the brains behind this religious position on display in full flaming glory.

  In short order we have a gloriously brilliant display of these brains by aligning three of its epiphanies in nearly perfect 12-year intervals of 1932, 1944 and 1956.

  Take a look for yourself:

  - 1932: http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2011/06/watchtower-on-demon-materialization.html

  - 1944: http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2011/02/blood-what-happened-at-watchtower-in.html

  - 1956: http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2011/06/watchtower-ectoplasm.html

  The same brains who concocted and began enforcing a prohibition against blood transfusion had before and after this swallowed something that was nothing less than staged theatrics. Reading aspects of these theatrics that so convinced the authors and publisher (Watchtower) of its worthiness provides a quite extensive examination of the brains behind the blood ban.

  Another thing I often forget to mention is the harm we do to ourselves when we let a fool convince us of something foolish. I tend to concentrate on the act of the fool and how harmful the fool is and neglect to remind myself and others of the self-harm of letting fools have some sway. One of the best things we can do for ourselves and others is to call a spade a spade. Hence, when presented by a fool spouting nonsense we should respond by expressing that it’s foolery and nothing more. We should avoid the self-harm of listening to fools. This will protect our own brains and allow them to grow rather than standing captive to a fool.

  Short instructional interactive:

  JW to you: The bible tells us blood transfusion is wrong.

  You: Have you ever heard of ectoplasm?

  JW to you: No.

  You: It was a simple theatrical trick of self-professed spirit mediums used to convince audiences that deceased souls were in the room and communicating.

  JW to you: Oh. What does that have to do with blood transfusion?

  You: The same folks who told you the bible condemns transfusion of donor blood to save a life also told you that ectoplasm was a manifestation of demon spirits when in fact they were fooled by a grammar school trick. Did I mention that long after teaching that blood transfusion is wrong that these teachers continued to believe in and promote the idea that ectoplasm was a real manifestation of spirits?

  JW to you: What… but… but…

  You: Would you let a medical doctor who promoted ectoplasm give your child or you advice? Why, or why not?

  Marvin Shilmer
• 
  78

  A child that DIDN'T want to die ... a blood experience you won't read in Awake! or on JW.ORG

  by wannabefree in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  while doing work for a client in her office recently, we got into a light discussion about religion.

  she knew i was one of jehovahs witnesses as our business relationship started while i was still a loyal and believing jw.

  anyway, i said something that she knew didnt quite fit and she said ... i thought you were one of jehovahs witnesses ... i shared my story ... she felt comfortable to confide in me a story as to why, even though she has had dealings with jehovahs witnesses who she thinks are good people, she would never even consider listening to them about their religion.. i asked her if she would write it down for me so that i could share ... she agreed.. this is her experience.. .

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  Marvin Shilmer

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  “I personally knew a 17 yo JW girl who was declared mature enough to decide to refuse a life saving blood transfusion. She died of lucemia within months of her origional diagnosis. This was 18 years ago in Susanville, California. Maybe some of you here know of this case. The parents bragged over and over how their daughter gave such "a powerful witness". I think it was their way of coping with the unecessary loss of their only child. MY point: How do any of us know how this beautiful, tallented, loving girl REALLY felt about dieing for a doctrine? She was a 3rd gen girl with a reg pio mother and PO Elder father and grandfather who was the Cong Servant for over 40 years! She was captive of a cult. If she would have agreed to a transfusion where would she go to recover? Who would support her decision? She knew FULL WELL she would be disfellowshipped and disowned by her ENTIRE family and friends. She had NO REAL CHOICE. Incidently,the doctors as well as the parents were fully convinced that a transfusion/s could have saved her.”

  I think I recall that sad experience. It made me cry then. I still makes me cry today.

  It’s as related by authors Guichon and Mitchell:

  “One survivor of postpartum haemorrhage without transfusion told us that her real choice was between the living death of losing her family and friends if she chose blood transfusion, or actual death caused by blood loss. The latter seemed preferable.”—(Guichon et al, Free and informed choice in medical treatment: making it safe to choose for Jehovah’s witnesses, International Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, Oct. 2009, Vol. 116, Issue 11, p. 1540.

  Marvin Shilmer
• 
  739

  250,000 Jehovah's Witnesses have died refusing blood

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  80+ branch davidian cult members died in waco, texas.

  250,000+ #jehovahswitnesses have died refusing blood.

  stop this #cult!

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Marvin Shilmer

  -

  “And that would serve as a good example of why Dr Beliaev is held to the same standards of every other medical researcher, and would need to prove his assertions with an actual study that tests that hypothesis, and not just rely "on a hunch" (i.e. opined, AKA a hypothesis). Science doesn't get anywhere by relying on that kind of 'scientific method'.

  “It's simply the unsupported opinion of one doctor in NZ, who MAY or MAY NOT be correct (here's where someone cues the JWs to march out their MDs to claim Beliaev's opinion is all wet, based on THEIR opinions. Pointless.....).

  “At the end of the day, Beliaev and anyone who understands the scientific method knows the ONLY WAY to solve such battling unsupported hypotheses is to design a study that reliably provides an answer, and until then, it's only one person's opinion vs another's.”

  Adamah,

  What I’ve shared is opinion based on a particular set of data and assumptions. No one has suggested otherwise. It’s there for every person to make of what they will. But at least it’s there to agree or disagree with, which means it gives people something to think about in the context of preventable deaths.

  So what’s your point, if you have one?

  If your point is that my extrapolation is opinion as said above then you have said nothing that is not self-evident.

  Marvin Shilmer
• 
  78

  A child that DIDN'T want to die ... a blood experience you won't read in Awake! or on JW.ORG

  by wannabefree in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  while doing work for a client in her office recently, we got into a light discussion about religion.

  she knew i was one of jehovahs witnesses as our business relationship started while i was still a loyal and believing jw.

  anyway, i said something that she knew didnt quite fit and she said ... i thought you were one of jehovahs witnesses ... i shared my story ... she felt comfortable to confide in me a story as to why, even though she has had dealings with jehovahs witnesses who she thinks are good people, she would never even consider listening to them about their religion.. i asked her if she would write it down for me so that i could share ... she agreed.. this is her experience.. .

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  Marvin Shilmer

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  “Sigh, I didn't think I needed to be so pendantic as to make clear that I was refering to rulings or defendable-in-court.”

  Simon,

  What you said was clear enough, and what you cite above is included in the scope my comments.

  Doctors make legal decisions all the time, including decisions about how and when to treat a patient that is to them a “mature minor”. They make these based on their own experience and training, or based on hospital policies handed down by administration. The whole idea is to make decisions that are, of course, defendable in court.

  If I’ve misunderstood you please explain.

  Marvin Shilmer
• 
  739

  250,000 Jehovah's Witnesses have died refusing blood

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  80+ branch davidian cult members died in waco, texas.

  250,000+ #jehovahswitnesses have died refusing blood.

  stop this #cult!

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Marvin Shilmer

  -

  Good underlining. You get an 'i'.

  Next week, work on gestures.

  Simon,

  Is that intended as insult?

  If you don’t want us participants to use the underlining feature then my recommendation is to get rid of it. I assume you want us to use it as each determines it appropriate. Right?

  When I respond to participants who in my estimation need help to distinguish between what’s said versus what’s meant by something said, I’m compelled to use the tools you provide to help these individuals read what’s actually said rather reading their own meaning into the thing said.

  Any questions?

  Marvin Shilmer
• 
  739

  250,000 Jehovah's Witnesses have died refusing blood

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  80+ branch davidian cult members died in waco, texas.

  250,000+ #jehovahswitnesses have died refusing blood.

  stop this #cult!

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Marvin Shilmer

  -

  “Second, you are wrong. They do say different things to internal members and external parties on all sorts of things including blood.”

  If you read closely you’ll not find where I’ve disagreed with your statement above. But you’ll have to read what I’ve written for what it says at face value.

  My earlier point is that Watchtower tells THE SAME lie when it comes to deaths due to blood refusal. The lie is to suggest that it occurs rarely or infrequently.

  This is not saying that Watchtower does not AT ALL admit that some JWs have died the result of refusing blood. Watchtower makes this admission to secular medical authorities AND to JWs. I’ve said as much in so many words. Yet for whatever reason you don’t see this in things I’ve said here. Hence your rude remarks to me!!!

  On another note, and about my estimate of 50,000 deaths due to JWs refusing blood between 1961 and 2011, a colleague having dialogue recently with Dr. Beliaev shared that Dr. Beliaev had read this estimate and its bases and opined that the figure 50,000 was “a pretty conservative estimate”.

  Marvin Shilmer
• 
  78

  A child that DIDN'T want to die ... a blood experience you won't read in Awake! or on JW.ORG

  by wannabefree in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  while doing work for a client in her office recently, we got into a light discussion about religion.

  she knew i was one of jehovahs witnesses as our business relationship started while i was still a loyal and believing jw.

  anyway, i said something that she knew didnt quite fit and she said ... i thought you were one of jehovahs witnesses ... i shared my story ... she felt comfortable to confide in me a story as to why, even though she has had dealings with jehovahs witnesses who she thinks are good people, she would never even consider listening to them about their religion.. i asked her if she would write it down for me so that i could share ... she agreed.. this is her experience.. .

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  Marvin Shilmer

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  Adamah,

  I’m curious about your background, being a retired physician and all. I’ve sent you a private message.

  Marvin